Friday 4 February 2011

Fruity and three

Today's issue deals with an approach by a man who 'has a calling'. He's a member of another church in the area and lives with a woman. They're not married and have no intention of it. He comes to ask my opinion about his domestic situation in the hope that the CofE wouldn't be bothered about it and would train him?

So what's the way forward with this one I wonder?

Do I explain that the CofE is not an 'anything goes' organisation and tell him to go and sin no more?
Of course, for me the first thing to explain was that one of the biggies when it comes to the Christian life is that of being in a position whereby one was playing by the Book! The fact that he was in a relationship with another person, albeit a woman, didn't change the fact that celibacy until marriage was the rule. He wasn't married and he wasn't celibate and therefore he fell at the very first hurdle! So the ball was in his court really.

He pointed out that this was a long-term relationship and felt that to be celibate would damage this and to move out would break the relationship. I asked why they didn't want to get married and the response was that they 'just didn't', it was a choice!

After some discussion he felt that it probably wouldn't be a problem in the CofE as his domestic arrangements weren't part of the 'calling', it was about God and Him. I had to explain that there had to be clear evidence of calling and the way one lived was part of the discernment of a call. I also had to explain that just popping in from another firm and expecting the CofE to send them off to college was a bit of a non-starter! He'd no track record with the CofE so why expect them to fund his training. His response was that this was what he'd been told the CofE did, pay for people to train.

I again had to explain that the living arrangements weren't satisfactory and that not being a Anglican would make make things difficult from the beginning. I asked why he wanted to be an Anglican and the bottom line was that he wanted to go to college and was told that we'd pay!

He left as sad and disillusioned man, especially when I told him that a couple of years with us and a wedding ring would start to put things on the right track to help test his calling. Don't think I'll be seeing him again.

Do I tell him that he'd be ok as long as he keeps his domestics to himself?
I sat in a Potty training session a few years back where a chap from Church House told us that if we were homosexual we didn't have to put it on any application forms and not only that, it was out of order for bishops to ask about it when interviewing.

Keep you 'arrangements' to yourself and things will be fine, they have no right to be told or ask. better still, the man continued, those who oppose women are obvious and so we can identify them and weed them out so that eventually they will be gone - no place for people like them in the Church of England! (Perhaps he's the founder of the ordinariate?) The same when for evangelicals who opposed homosexuality and other stuff that cramped the style and liberty of those in church, for they also always put their heads above the parapet.

My advice is that plain and transparent is always a good way forward, stops worrying at night about what people might know and how they might one day reveal it. The Oscar Wilde, "Flee, all is discovered!" telegram springs to mind here!

Do I start to outline how we test calling and explain that his home situation presents a problem which needs to be addressed regardless.
Of course I do! There's four states of sexual activity: Married (male/female), unmarried (and celibate), unmarried (and engaged in fornication i.e. not celibate) and adulterous (married but sexually engaged with someone outside the marriage relationship of either, or both, parties).

It's pretty simple, always has been and always will be really!

Outside of this there are the various ways that we personally test a calling on our life and the way that we offer ourselves to, and are tested by the wider Church. Living Biblically is a start on this road of discovery.

Do I tell him to leave his 'other half', and their kids for the sake of his eternal soul?
Many out there would say a big 'yes' to this and it is one of the tough questions that we encounter from time to time. We don't want to split families and yet we'd be wrong to merely look the other way to maintain the atatus quo. For my part, I'd rather engage with the person and from a developing relationship with them seek to lead them, rather than demand or condemn, them into the place that they should, biblically, be. It is, after all at the end of the day, their decision and they have the freedom to act as they please - that's the way it was set up. We choose how we act and whether or not we act regardless of the setting!

This, of course, brings us back to restoring gently and lots of not judging lest we are judged and myriad numbers of splinters and beams in the eyes stuff!

Do I tell him to talk to his pastor and/or contact him to ask him to talk to this bloke and sort him out?
The reality is that the man is a member of another church and therefore unless he asks me to work with him he's under the pastoral care and authority of someone else. If he does ask me, I'd have to contact his pastor as a matter of courtesy. I would of course tell the bloke that I would have to speak to his pastor and ask his permission. If it's not forthcoming then I couldn't act.

Asking the chap's pastor to get involved is a potentially difficult thing to do, after all he's apparently comfortable with the bloke living in a wrong relationship, but I might try to find out what his 9and other people's) take on the situation is so that at least I might pray intelligently and perhaps discuss it should the opportunity ever naturally arise.

I find the big problem with this area is that many have no issues because it's heterosexual sin which almost sanitises or leads people to ignore it. But of course just as homosexuality is not the defining sin, neither can anything involving heterosexuality become the the invisible sin.

Is it me, or do many people who claim to be Christian live in a world where as long as they don't know, they aren't troubled? Is it more or do many not want to know so the previous sentence can apply?

Pax

ps. We will also need to consider the issue of 'calling' at time, but we have time. Thank you for those who are engaging with me - I'm happy to consider other viewpoints and dialogue.

4 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well, I read this about an hour ago and I'm still almost speachless now. This wasn't a real life example was it..?

As someone in the discernment process I find it very hard to comprehend how someone could try to seperate his spiritual calling from his day to day life and not see the conflict.

When we were invited to take up our crosses and follow the Lord there is a bit of a hint in the language that we might have to make some sacrifices.

This process (for me anyway) is very much about self realisation. For me the discernment aspect isn't to see if I am being called but to see how I respond to that percieved call.

I think you gave him the best advice possible. You have outined the position he is in. Not avoiding tough issues or things that he may not have wanted to hear. You have demonstrated to him that there is a need to be beyond reproach in his own lifestyle in order to have credibility when teaching or counselling others about theirs. You have also let him know that there is no 'quick fix' into ministry.

Ultimatly you have let him know where he stands and put things back in his court for him to consider and take to the Lord in prayer. Then to follow whatever direction he feels is right as a result of that.

Do say if this was a real enquiry and I will pray for him.

Vic Van Den Bergh said...

Sadly, it was a real enquiry.

The person in question felt that what he brought to the party and the 'calling' were enough and that it was all about him and God.

He also felt that the call was so strong and obvious that we'd rip his arm off to start training him>

When I outlined that the process could take some time this also dismayed him - he thought he'd get the nod in day or weeks, not months or even years!

It was just a little misunderstanding, naivety and not being Anglican coming together into one bargain bucket.

Hey ho!

Thanks for comments,

V

UKViewer said...

Sorry, Vic, I missed this one yesterday, I was to tied up with other stuff.

However, I can accept very much the situation you describe. How can someone come to the church and expect the church to put them forward for discernment and training unless they sign up to the Churches norms or rules or whatever you wish to call it on human sexuality and behaviour.

I know to my cost, having been divorced some 25 years ago, that the church is robust in approaching these issues. The process towards an Archbishops faculty is long, hard, painful and explores the reasons behind breakdowns in relationships,to ensure that there is nothing hanging around which might cause scandal or bite them in the butt.

I accept this. It is about obedience (bad word these days with some) and personal integrity. If you truly wish that the call be fully and properly discerned. Why would the church take such a risk and send me for selection or training unless they can be certain about all aspects of formation and character.

My daughter is in a longterm relationship, outside marriage. I consider that her business. She is not a Christian, and who am I to be judgmental about it. She remains my daughter, and is treated no differently, whatever her living arrangements are.

There are no children to complicate matters, but, even if there were, I would not treat them any differently to my other grandchildren, born in wedlock.

In the end,If you are prepared to compromise your integrity, then you will lie or evade answering truly, but what will that do to any vocation - I believe that it would kill it stone dead, unless you have no conscience about such things.

Revsimmy said...

Do I tell him to leave his 'other half', and their kids for the sake of his eternal soul?
Leaving aside the question of ordination, my response to this is "no". I don't think God is in the business of breaking up relationships unless they are abusive and harmful (I think that 1 Corinthians 7:12-16 is relevant here, particularly as one can legitimately translate "husband" and "wife" simply as "man" and "woman"). Damage will be done to the children and the other partner, possibly lasting damage, and the chance of them actually hearing the gospel will probably be lost. This seems to me to be choosing the letter rather than the spirit of "the Law". Would I encourage them to get married? Cetainly, but gently and in their own good time. God deals with all sorts of stuff in our lives, and this situation may not be the most important priority just now.

However, it is a barrier to leadership and ordination, and the CofE rightly is quite rigorous in its attitudes and procedure in discerning vocations. This is not just between him and God, but involves the Church, his fellow-Christians and the surrounding community as well.